Curse

Creston · Jun 20, 2005, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aug

The Rune Trader eats about 15% of every sale.

I think it eats 500% actually?

25 buy value
125 sale value

Net result : 100 gold leaves the game.

I guess that'd be 400 percent.

Creston

Aug · Jun 20, 2005, 06:01 PM // 18:01

That's only at the very bottom of the scale. If you look at the buy/sell differential on more valuable runes, like Superior Fire, Absorption, or Vigor, you'll see the sink is not 400%, but closer to 10-15%.

Algren Cole · Jun 20, 2005, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aug

The only people's game play it destroyed were those who loved to sit and work the player trade system. That's it. It benefited everyone else. I'm pretty sure the entrepreneur population segment is not the majority.

I believe your under the false assumption that YOUR idea of fun is the majority. I don't believe that's true. And maybe you should consider the fact that A.Net doesn't either, rather than that they failed to analyze the impact of their decision.

I'm quite sure A.Net knew that the market price on all minor and major runes would plummet. And they likely knew that the majority of superior runes would also be worth significantly less. And not only did they provide a way to actually guage rune values for the general public, but they also introduced a gold sink. The Rune Trader eats about 15% of every sale.

the rune trader takes roughly 18 gold for every 125 gold sale...that's an incredibly effective gold sink when you consider people have enough gold to pay 60K for a bow...the rune trader would need to sell 3,333 runes just to take the 60K one person spends on a bow out of the economy...and that seems effective to you?

Creston · Jun 20, 2005, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aug

That's only at the very bottom of the scale. If you look at the buy/sell differential on more valuable runes, like Superior Fire, Absorption, or Vigor, you'll see the sink is not 400%, but closer to 10-15%.

Oh okay, I didn't know those prices offhand.

Creston

arnansnow · Jun 20, 2005, 06:03 PM // 18:03

I've sold a major absorbtion rune for 4k and I looked at the buying price: 5K
that's around 25%, i think the percent different changes depending on how much it costs to buy

Aug · Jun 20, 2005, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

the rune trader takes roughly 18 gold for every 125 gold sale...that's an incredibly effective gold sink when you consider people have enough gold to pay 60K for a bow...the rune trader would need to sell 3,333 runes just to take the 60K one person spends on a bow out of the economy...and that seems effective to you?

It would need to sell 3,333 of the least valuable runes, yes. It only needs to sell about 4 Superior Vigors or Absorptions to remove that much gold out of the system.

15% is a reasonable tax. You think it should've been higher? No one would use the Rune Traders if it consumed much more. There's already a fair number of people who try to undercut the rune trader at various times of the day, but still make more money than just selling directly to the trader.

Algren Cole · Jun 20, 2005, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aug

It would need to sell 3,333 of the least valuable runes, yes. It only needs to sell about 4 Superior Vigors or Absorptions to remove that much gold out of the system.

15% is a reasonable tax. You think it should've been higher? No one would use the Rune Traders if it consumed much more. There's already a fair number of people who try to undercut the rune trader at various times of the day, but still make more money than just selling directly to the trader.

I don't use the Rune Trader...it takes away from my enjoyment of the PvE aspect of the game. Which is ofcourse a personal choice...to better my enjoyment of the game I spent 50 bucks on. 15% is higher than it should be....they can't just introduce a single aspect and expect it to fix the problem. The rune trader should be taking 5-7% and giving you MORE for your rune and selling them for MORE. Keep in mind...this is only for minor runes as it's the only thing I've looked at from the rune trader, as I don't use it. dropping less gold would be a good idea....I get so much gold just walking around outside of town that I do nothing with. I'm not about price gouging...i'm about getting a fair price for the items i've found...and at this point that's not possible from the rune trader. I wanted to sell those 10 runes for 450 gold...which would have been 45g a piece...and yet it's impossible to do because people don't need to anymore. I ended up just giving them away to the first person in Ascalon City to find me.(atleast I had some fun playing hide and seek

) I don't want 60K for my Gold Fiery Ram's Hammer....I want 4K, and I don't want 100K for my Max Dmg Storm Bow...I want 3K...I'm not looking to benefit from other players...I'm looking to enjoy the game the way it was supposed to be enjoyed....and right now ther isn't(and I don't foresee in the near future) any way to do that. It's honestly not even worth your time to keep runes in your inventory. I unlock them...then throw them on the ground so I can keep more enchanted loadstones.

Enchanted Loadstones are worth the same as Minor Runes....something is wrong with a game with things like this start happening. That's like seeing your shoe laces worth as much as your coat.

Aug · Jun 20, 2005, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

I don't use the Rune Trader...it takes away from my enjoyment of the PvE aspect of the game. Which is ofcourse a personal choice...to better my enjoyment of the game I spent 50 bucks on. 15% is higher than it should be....they can't just introduce a single aspect and expect it to fix the problem. The rune trader should be taking 5-7% and giving you MORE for your rune and selling them for MORE. Keep in mind...this is only for minor runes as it's the only thing I've looked at from the rune trader, as I don't use it. dropping less gold would be a good idea....I get so much gold just walking around outside of town that I do nothing with.

Seems to me that A.Net didn't intend for the runes to be a rare commodity. You are still working under the assumption that runes are supposed to be rare. Did you read the box that the game came in? Or did you buy it online? If you read the box, you'd see a particularly important statement on it about how skill is the deciding factor, and not time invested or luck. Free and easy access to runes is part of that.

Quote:

I'm not about price gouging...i'm about getting a fair price for the items i've found...and at this point that's not possible from the rune trader. I wanted to sell those 10 runes for 450 gold...which would have been 45g a piece...and yet it's impossible to do because people don't need to anymore. I ended up just giving them away to the first person in Ascalon City to find me.(atleast I had some fun playing hide and seek

)

45g is a fair price. However, as you've noted, gold is so abundant that people don't mind spending 125G at the Rune Trader. I know I'm not going to spend hours looking for someone that happened to store away a 45g minor rune, nor am I willing to spend hours of game time doing without said rune, just to save a measly 80 gold.

You need to realize that minor runes were meant to be abundant and cheap. Once you get past that, maybe you can let this issue go.

Quote:

I don't want 60K for my Gold Fiery Ram's Hammer....I want 4K, and I don't want 100K for my Max Dmg Storm Bow...I want 3K...I'm not looking to benefit from other players...I'm looking to enjoy the game the way it was supposed to be enjoyed....and right now ther isn't(and I don't foresee in the near future) any way to do that.

Nothing's stopping you from charging whatever you want for weapons right now. There is no weapons trader. However, just because an item is gold doesn't mean it's worth much. Most gold items are worth more to the merchant than to other players.

Quote:

It's honestly not even worth your time to keep runes in your inventory. I unlock them...then throw them on the ground so I can keep more enchanted loadstones.

Nope, it's not. You shouldn't salvage them out, if you don't plan to use them. Like I said, [minor] runes weren't meant to be rare. Major runes are significantly more rare, but no one wants them. And same goes for a lot of the Superior runes, as well. That's a problem with the rune system itself (their level of desirability), however, and not the traders.

Essentially it all boils down to A.Net wanting all runes to be more accessible. The game was marketed as largely item-independent. A.Net has just been a little slow about making the marketing copy a reality.

Apophis Jaan · Jun 20, 2005, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Im all for the rune trader, I was getting sick of the rediculously high prices. Now there actually affordable, you know not everyone likes to spend 5 hours a day farming.

Barraind · Jun 20, 2005, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Rune prices when sold to the trader seem to be based off the base buy price with a random variable determined by the actual physical item itself (the specific instance of the rune you possess in your bags). My 6 major soul reaping runes have been selling for 27, 34, 37, 46, 55, 62 gold, each time I check (takes ~10 seconds to do them all). Price is set by rune as well, where the same physical rune will ALWAYS be the lower priced rune, while a different rune will always be the higher priced, regardless of order checked in.

The current rune system via trader is b0rked, it needs a lot of tweaking.

Prices on the trader, outside a very small number runes, was never close to what fair value was before the trader. To claim that the old prices were "wrong" while the new prices are a-ok is idiotic.

Aug · Jun 20, 2005, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraind

Rune prices when sold to the trader seem to be based off the base buy price with a random variable determined by the actual physical item itself (the specific instance of the rune you possess in your bags). My 6 major soul reaping runes have been selling for 27, 34, 37, 46, 55, 62 gold, each time I check (takes ~10 seconds to do them all). Price is set by rune as well, where the same physical rune will ALWAYS be the lower priced rune, while a different rune will always be the higher priced, regardless of order checked in

I don't really understand. Are you saying that you take 6 of the same rune (Major Soul Reaping), and price check each one, without selling, and that the values go up? I've never witnessed this. Granted, I've never used a worthless rune in this scenario, but yesterday I sold 6 Minor Vigors. The prices went down, not up, the more I sold. And the prices varied based upon the time of day (300ish at the low point, and around 650ish at the high).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraind

Prices on the trader, outside a very small number runes, was never close to what fair value was before the trader. To claim that the old prices were "wrong" while the new prices are a-ok is idiotic.

Why? Because you can't demand 5k from that one person out 500,000 that actually wants a Superior Beastmastery rune?

The prices ARE fair. The trader does not create runes out of thin air. His stock is directly correlated to who has sold to and purchased runes from him. Obviously runes you feel should be worth more are not in high demand. More people are willing to sell them to the vendor than are willing to buy them.

Prices on runes will only continue to drop as the game matures. As more and more people unlock runes, they will have no need for the rune traders for PvP characters. And due to the pain involved in respeccing an RP character, not to mention the limited storage space, most people will only have 1, maybe 2 sets of PvE clothing.

Rune prices will continue to approach the minimum value, because they are not a consumable item (partially untrue... you can fail to salvage a rune, but 'smart' people won't put expensive runes on equipment they're going to upgrade/salvage anyway).

The rune trader actually makes the game MORE accessible to new players. Without the rune traders, there is no way a new player would ever be able to purchase any Superior rune, because they'd always be in short supply (due to limited storage) and there'd always be people out there with TONS of money.

=HT=Ingram · Jun 20, 2005, 11:24 PM // 23:24

heck I dumped 20 Minor (from our guild) runes of fire, energy storage, and strength on the market just because I wanted to drive the buying price down for others... I didn't care one way or the other. Runes are for use not hoarding... Some leaches that do nothing but hog Ali the gold in the game were the problem to begin with. Play the game don't worry about your freak inflation market... Its all soon to be obsolete anyway. Beside there will always be some poor ignorant n00b you can sucker. Most of us feel we have had enough of it... Notice these stupid people are finally disappearing because no one is willing to pay ungodly amounts of gold for easy to obtain items... And it cuts the Big RealWorld markets out of the gaming community... Meaning those that were selling gold and full inventory accounts on e-bay in the last few weeks. not only were those accounts LOCKED OUT... but its now harder to acquire enough gold in a inventory to provide such accounts for sell. Personally I think its great for the gaming community because now we can get back to what really maters... going head to head in PvP and GvG... I haven't traded in a town in a month now. we do all our trades and commerce in our guild hall, or in private instances... No need to waste time in worthless town markets...

Zexion · Jun 21, 2005, 12:49 AM // 00:49

I hate the rune traders.
Now they set a price people DEMAND for runes.
Heck, I could once sell a superior x rune for over 10k before the trader.
Now it's price is 1k!
Ridicilous!
Make the price balance around 100-200 for minor, 1k-2k for major and 5k-10k for superior, and I will love you Anet!

_Zexion

Algren Cole · Jun 21, 2005, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aug

The prices ARE fair.

if you want to call 25g for a minor rune a fair price...then I should get as many rune drops as I do enchanted loadstones....and they should be able to stack. I should be able to go back to town/outpost with 30 minor runes to sell to the trader....otherwise something needs to be fixed. Shoelaces shouldn't cost the same as the shoe

Eclair · Jun 21, 2005, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Well, the merchant doesn't create demand, it reflects demand. Before the rune trader i used to just sell the minors while they were still in the armor to the NPC, because it was a pain in the butt to find the 1/1000 people that might need one and pay maybe 50 gold more for it.

QTFsniper · Jun 21, 2005, 01:50 AM // 01:50

"stop loling at me" = "stop laughing out louding at me" uh huh....

Aug · Jun 21, 2005, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

if you want to call 25g for a minor rune a fair price...then I should get as many rune drops as I do enchanted loadstones....and they should be able to stack. I should be able to go back to town/outpost with 30 minor runes to sell to the trader....otherwise something needs to be fixed. Shoelaces shouldn't cost the same as the shoe

Quit salvaging them. Sell them in the armor. You'll get more than 25G.